The Idea that a Bigger Fence...Equals Better?

[Rebels_Princess]

Good Evening everyone! Sorry it's been so long since I have been able to post here. It seems that many things have taken place. I know that I have been insanely busy but I thought I would take some time and throw out some thoughts for everyone to discuss.

I've been riding for several years now. First starting in barrel racing where when I first started I thought the faster the better. With some growing up and getting to know horses I came to realize that that wasn't exactly the case. It was becoming consistent that we aimed for eventually lol.

Now my riding career has refocused for the last 8 years or so on hunters/jumpers and equitation. It seems since day one the idea was always the bigger the fence the better the horse and rider. Where does everyone think this idea came from? When you think about it logically...wouldn't you rather be a solid rider with a solid horse over fences be those fences 2' or so. Rather then trying to prove that you can do the 3' plus stuff and just hang on?

Despite being a hunter team my mare and I very seldom actually practice being 'hunters'. The mare is bright and willing dare I even say bold some days on cross country. She'll school jumper courses with turns at the drop of the hat. Trail ride like a steady eddy...except where cows are concerned. More then anything the mare is schooled on the flat. When we jump it is just putting fences into the flatwork.

I understand that eventing is an extremely difficult sport. But as is any other equestian endeavor when persued correctly. Because they compete at several different dicsiplines all combined into one does not mean that they are of a more balanced seat then those riders who only commit to competing in one event.

A well schooled horse is a well schooled horse whether it be in hunters, jumper, eventing, dressage, gaming, pleasure, driving. The basics are always there....or at least should be in a perfect world. The same goes for the rider.

We seem to try to group different types of horses and riders together and then pick them apart as a whole. This could never work because at the highest levels the horses and riders are good and that can not be disputed. The same goes for lower levels in all of them the riders are at a bridge in learning. Some choose to continue on and eventually get to that place in thier education where I beleive that everything meets and bridges and you truely become a good horseman or woman. Others settle and are happy with what they know, which is perfectly fine.

The problems in the horse world do not stem from one certian style or another. It is as a whole that the community lacks the desire to be 'polished'.


probably a complete random mess of words...I apologize in advance....

[Espresso]

Originally Posted by Rebels_Princess

More then anything the mare is schooled on the flat. When we jump it is just putting fences into the flatwork.

Exactly! I find too many people jump WAY too much. I jump my horse once a week or less. Then when we compete he only does one class a day. After competition, 7 days off. Why, because i care about his legs and well being and don't want him to burn out at a young age.

Good post Rebels Princess

[*pony addicted*]

i agree whole-heartedly, it always seems like such a rush to get begginer riders to the big fences. I know when i started riding agian at 11 (took lessons at 9) i was jumping after 4 months. Over the years i felt a huge "hole" in my riding, so i basically boycotted jumping for over a year. It turned me and my horse into a better team. I know you were aiming more for the horses training, but the same thing goes for a riders training.

I have now moved on to different horses and different diciplines, but the fact of the matter is success in ANY dicipline is a result of a solid base. As for jumping, I think many people overlook the fact that there is a much bigger picture to jumping then the fence itself.

[marin415]

Originally Posted by Feu Manchu

Exactly! I find too many people jump WAY too much. I jump my horse once a week or less. Then when we compete he only does one class a day. After competition, 7 days off. Why, because i care about his legs and well being and don't want him to burn out at a young age.

Good post Rebels Princess

Well, I can't say that I'm THAT generous lol, I'd usually have 1 or 2 rest days after a show.. if you're in the middle of show season it's too intense to be able to have a week off, depending on the type of showing, how serious you are, how conditioned your horse is.. many variables. But your horse is a lucky one! lol

Before I put in my two cents on the topic, I just wanted to say that I haven't been around the Mane Street for long but I love this whole idea of discussing a topic instead of only answering questions (which is also dead useful)

About the actual topic: I myself haven't done much jumping. I used to jump my first pony but after her I bought a 2 year old QH gelding (so jumping was obviously out of the questions). But now that I've done quite a few years of flat work (I've been riding for about 9 years) I'll probably try my hand at it again eventually.. but the flat work makes me much more confident about jumping. I'm really against the lesson barns that but you into jumping lessons after a half a year of riding.. I think that's pretty awful. The better foundation you have in flat-work, the better your jumping will be, IMO Because if you think about it.. whether your doing a bounce, or a sharp turn to get to the next fence.. it's what's in between the jumps that counts, and that's the flat work. So I definitely agree with you guys

[sunhawk]

This is a good topic and I'm sorry it's not getting more energy, so I thought I'd throw something into it.

I think you are absolutely right...........to a point.

I think there is a point where horses/riders absolutely need to push the envelope a bit, and they shouldn't always wait for perfection. Sometimes, it is only by challenging yourself that you decide to iron out the little flaws, because you find that little flaws really get your way when the fences get bigger, and that you need to make that little extra effort to ride well.

I think that some horses lose their interest and energy and start jumping flatter if they don't add height at the right time. Depends as usual on the individual.

[Rebels_Princess]

There is no way you can wait on perfection but you have to wait on security. If the horse is prepared for bigger fences then get a rider who can handle the bigger fences. I don't think that a bigger fence is always necessary to sharpen up a horse and rider. Think rather of the questions you can pose to them just by changing angles...grades...footing...approach...pace and striding. The possibilities are endless with just 2' courses.

I'll be the first to admit that I want to jump big. But I won't put my horse or myself at risk just to prove myself worthy of a 5' fence.

[Walknuk]

Originally Posted by Rebels_Princess

...I don't think that a bigger fence is always necessary to sharpen up a horse and rider. Think rather of the questions you can pose to them just by changing angles...grades...footing...approach...pace and striding. The possibilities are endless with just 2' courses...

Just what I was going to say.

[holiday]

It seems since day one the idea was always the bigger the fence the better the horse and rider. Where does everyone think this idea came from?

It's because the height (or width or weight) of something can be measured, much like how fast one can run or kick a ball, etc. It's far more difficult to quantify one's riding ability (or one's skill as, say, a soccer player) as a whole or to talk about it without setting arbitrary "levels" or breaking things down to its parts, which also tend to have something to do with fence height (or how fast one runs, etc). And, generally (or ideally ) speaking, the higher the fences or more difficult the courses, the more "advanced" riders one tends to find. But it's all relative to one another.

wouldn't you rather be a solid rider with a solid horse over fences be those fences 2' or so. Rather then trying to prove that you can do the 3' plus stuff and just hang on?

I think that comes from not knowing what you don't know, or "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". And I'm not sure there's any way around that (in any sport or, really, life itself) other than going through the experience, good or bad. Trial and error and all that - though, IMO, it helps to mitigate the "error" part if one has someone to help show the way.

[sunhawk]

I was really thinking about how I recently moved my horse from pre-training to training level, and in the last show, I jumped a 3'6" round. I wouldn't dream of putting him over a 5' fence--I'm too chicken and I don't want to screw up the approach by losing everything I've worked for to get us approaching 3'3 and 3'6 fences nicely. But I think it was good for both of us to jump that 3'6 round, and I'm looking forward to our next event at training level, and I'm planning some grid work up to the 3'6 and 3'9 levels. He has gotten sloppy over 3', and I have done pretty much every trick in the book for distances, and angling jumps etc. to make things more interesting. And I don't jump frequently either, but I've been working with this horse for six years.

So, question for you guys, what do you do for a horse that twists over a fence to get his knees out of the way instead of jumping higher and rounder?

[Lindsay Kern]

I agree with Sunhawk. I have a horse who has only been schooling ver fences for 2 years now. We started slowly, worked really hard on his flat work, spend 3-4 days a week on flat, 1 day on jumping, and 1 day playing around or going out on the trails. He is a happy boy who loves his job, and tries hard at everything you ask of him.

BUT... 2 questions to stir this pot a little bit.

1.What do you do when he stops caring about little fences?? He started out with amazing form over cross rails. Now, he just doesn't try. I have tried everything to sice it up, angles, grids, striding, x-country, etc. It all works at first, but he gets bored again and I am out of ideas. I have moved him up to schooling 2'6-2'9" this year, and he does amazing. He gets in to it, listens to everything I ask of him, his awesome form is back, and we finish the ride and both feel inspired ( I know he is, he told me!! ). He seems to work so much better at this height, and doesn't get bored like he used to.

2. What about when it comes to shows?? I feel if I was to compete in the 2' hunters, it would be unfair to all of those up and coming riders who are just starting out in the show ring.

I agree that if everyone took the same approach, and really perfected their 2' rounds before moving up, we would raise the bar and make the 2' division more of a challenge. This in turn would keep the new riders at that level for longer, and make them perfect their own abilities before moving up. I agree with so many of your points, and I think there are way to many people out there who insist on jumping so much higher than what they or their horses are ready for.It's scary, and I see it everyday. On the other hand. I do agree that there does comes a time to move up and challenge both yourself and your horse.